Ben Fowler
03/07/13 on 10:50 AM (Pacific Time)

Has anyone experienced the aforementioned CREE bulbs? How's the lighting quality holding up on these cheaper models? 

What LED bulbs are you recommending to your customers?

David Harris
03/07/13 on 11:59 AM (Pacific Time)

Ben, thanks for posting. Pretty exciting news to lighting folks.
One question I had was: "Is the Cree LED Bulb ENERGY STAR® qualified?"
Cree's answer: "Not at this time. The Cree LED bulb is currently in the qualification process for earning the ENERGY STAR qualification." Cree LED Bulb FAQ.pdf
I have generally told customers to look for LED products that are ENERGY STAR® qualified or to wait unless they really want to pay for the long-life, dimming & cold temperature operation that some LEDs provide. Might be time for me to buy one and test it out. If Cree's product delivers what it claims I will be changing my script.

Dave Yang
03/07/13 on 07:07 PM (Pacific Time)

Hi all.   As the "commercial ceiling" has been broached, hope it is ok for me to say I rep GE and they are developing a low cost LED A19 as well.   Hard to describe here, but the A19 style looks like your incandescent bulbs and will screw into the incandescent sockets.  If you plan to use them in a fixture where the socket is towards the ceiling all manufacturers will yield about the same results.   If you plan to use them in a table lamp, i.e., where the socket is towards the floor, only GE has a design where the heat sink does not block the light projecting onto the table surface.  This might make a difference if you plan to read, etc., from items on the desk.

other items to be aware of (my apologies if you already know the following, and/or more):

*  most, if not all, LED lamps - the fine print on the box will say do not use in an enclosed fixture.   Getting rid of the heat is critical to the life of the LED lamp

*  most mfgs now print on the box what equivalent wattage of incandescent bulb it replaces.

*  the closer the "temperature" rating, the warmer the light.    A 6,000k is close to cool white fluorescent lamps and 3700k is closer to sunlight

*  some are dimmable and some not so read the box carefully

*  we are at a similar stage as with the CFL's years ago.....  There are many mfgs and not all have tested their products so theirs won't last as long.   Energy Star is a good way to get lamps that meet a minimum.


If needed, I have a local distributor set up who can quote bulk wholesale to organizations, including utilities.

again, my apologies if I was too commercial...... Let me know and I will restrain myself......

Roger Peery
03/12/13 on 11:42 AM (Pacific Time)

Getting a product approved through Energy Star takes time, so here in the Northwest we've come up with an interim approval process through the Lighting Design Lab. There's easy instructions right on the LDL website, so the manufacturer should get the info to the lab, and we can start approving projects with this lamp within a couple of weeks.  That is assuming that they will meet the LDL criteria...

Dave Yang
03/13/13 on 09:49 AM (Pacific Time)

Thanks Roger.   I will check with my manufacturer........ maybe they have already done so ....
Dave

Jim Wilcox
03/28/13 on 04:26 PM (Pacific Time)

In response to Ben's question about how well Cree (or other) LED bulbs are holding up. As far as claimed longevity, how long would it take for anyone to know? A bulb rated for 25,000 hours could fail in half that time and thus be considered an F grade. Some of these claims are for 22 years. I am testing one right now running a duty cycle of 6 hrs on and 18 hrs off. Check back with me in 5-10 years.

Phillip Norman
03/28/13 on 09:10 PM (Pacific Time)

I think it is sad we are talking about light bulbs. The only future for LED point-source bulbs is in decoration. All task lighting will be plate LED directional light, mainly beaming down from ceilings and pendant fixtures. A point source bulb is less than fifty percent efficient in task illumination. We will not put up with throwing away more than half of lighting energy. We will want fullest task illumination per drawn watt, especially where we draw that power from a PV array. Please see this post and more at my blog.

Phillip Norman
03/28/13 on 09:21 PM (Pacific Time)

Let the Northwest lead the nation in motion toward a correct third stage of the L-Prize. The competition will be for a socket standard, holding plate LED clusters sourced locally and mandated to be at absolute lowest cost, solving stupid problems in distribution where multiple markups of up to thirty percent kill the possibilities.

I hope these will be called Star Lights. The wiring will be low voltage DC.

Let's skip L-Prize Stage Two.

Joel Smith
04/03/13 on 11:15 AM (Pacific Time)

From an LDL list point of view the product should pass if it hasn't already. I ran it through the LDL calculator already and it passed. This only accounts for data found in a LM79 report. The calculator is using ENERGY STAR specs for the photometric performance. What remains to be seen is if it will pass for lumen maintenance which is expected in June.

The dimming and light quality appears to be great and at the price it will change the market place, regardless of the ENERGY STAR certification.

Chuck Eberdt
04/05/13 on 10:25 AM (Pacific Time)

I have recently purchased and installed a handful of the Cree units that are being sold at one of the big box stores.  While it is years too early to comment on the longevity, I'll note the packaging guarantees replacement for failture after a number of years (so long as I can find the receipt if/when it fails prematurely 8 years down the road).  What may be more germane, however, is the appearance.  This may relate to the comment from Dave Yang regarding the heat sink blocking the light projection.  I installed a few bulbs in a hanging fixture over a dining room table, in which the bulb orientation ends up more or less horizontal.  I immediately noticed a few things: 1) there is a dark spot at the end of the bulb that shows through the fixture's frosted glass; 2) the illumination in the room seems much brighter than I was getting with the corresponding 60 watt incandescents that were previously installed, to the point I thinking lower watt-rated units might suffice; and 3) it takes a little more hand-motor control on the dimmer switch to dim the light - i.e., it quickly goes dead off, while there is still room to move on the dimmer.  Point 1) doesn't bother me, particularly, but I may not be as finicky as less energy-concerned occupants.

I am also particularly interested in finding less expensive but reliable units that can be used in enclosed fixtures.  What I have seen advertised is either very expensive or a brand with whose CFLs I personally did not have a good experience. 

Having spent many hours trying to find energy efficiency lamps with a style I like, the freedom in selection these units can provide is terrific.

Heather Simmons-Rigdon
04/19/13 on 09:05 AM (Pacific Time)

Interesting article -- I wasn't sure of the hazardous nature of LED light bulbs (if there was any) compared to the mercury and lead containing counterpart, the fluorescent light bulb.  http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_5736.cfm

Brad Acker
04/25/13 on 02:48 PM (Pacific Time)

Testing these products was touched on above (or will it be below?). I'm a mechanical engineer, with steel and the such, we can do accelerated life testing. Does anything like that exist for LED lighting or any other lighting for that matter? Along the lines of; Would operating an LED at twice the design temp give you information about how long it will run at design temp? 

Dave Yang
04/26/13 on 05:27 PM (Pacific Time)

Brad... The major, and more reputable, manufacturers do have "accelerated life" testing.   However, as you know this still takes time and incurs cost.   I believe the industry has now learned that considerations such as this are important.  We are still suffering some of the consequences with CFL's because there was the emotional high/rush to get CFL's in use.   Yes it saved kwh's, but in more situations than non-engineers are willing to believe, they actually caused an increase in total energy usage.     As an EE and PE, I have also worked in the HVAC industry and done heat loss calculations, and in the early 1980's used an interactive computer program where we validated with in the field kwh METERING/sub-metering.    We used 20 years of hourly weather BIN information in the simulations.   Having survived 25 years in a 100% commission business and having an MBA has hopefully balanced my "engineering" tendencies..... My opinion is that the emotional "train" of CFL's could not be checked by logic/engineers, but due to some of the not so great consequences we now have more of a platform with the LED's.    there remain some "blindspots" that I don't believe will be overcome, but I am much more optimistic this time around with the LED's.   

i have been around long enough to know that logic and common sense will still be casualties to biases.  Many people do not have the black/white engineering perspective.   As an engineer you know there are incontrovertible algorithms that should win over idealism.   However, in the real world this does not always happen, which is a challenge for engineers to be comfortable with.    For example, I found a spreadsheet by the regional technical "expert"where certain cells should have the key equations showing what the assumptions were in deriving the "net" energy savings of CFL's...... And found that only numbers were entered.     No equations.  As a scientific person you know that another line of reasoning we are taught is to think about the logic of conclusions to see if they support the results of calculations.   I can tell you that these "net" savings #'s defy all common sense.    Obviously, the spreadsheet was used to convey a perception of "calculated" net savings.   How can one not conclude a probable bias?

Low cost mfgs typically do not have certified test results such as the LM 79 mentioned above.     These were not required when the CFL train went barreling out of the station.   Hence, we had thousands of lower cost CFL's win the market, and most of them burned out in less than 6 months.    I am continually amazed, but not amazed, by how many conservation people at conferences tell me they have zero CFL's in their own homes.

Steven McGrath
05/23/13 on 01:52 PM (Pacific Time)

I've had a couple of TCP BR30s in my kitchen for a little over a year now with good results, I consider these to be the first "no compromises" LED bulbs I've tried. I went with the 2700K model, rated at 650 lumens at 11 Watts, installing the alongside incandescent versions, and the only noticeable difference was that they were slightly brighter. One caveat is that I don't have these on a dimmer.

On another note, does anybody know how to estimate the lost lifetime from operating LEDs in enclosed fixtures? As the prices come down, it may be a reasonable trade off to accept having to replace them after 'only' ten years, if it means not having to move to a different style of fixture.

Dave Yang
05/23/13 on 07:40 PM (Pacific Time)

Good question Steve.   

There are dimmable LED's available now.

Phillip Norman
08/26/13 on 07:52 PM (Pacific Time)

Here at last is my second criticism of this silly bulb. Please find test results in this blog post. There is no future for LED point-source bulbs, in practical illumination. There should be no incentives for such products. We are way overdue in offering encouragement in the manufacturing and installation of LED disk/ plate lights. Please see recent posting to Conduit with similar sentiments.

I think we will make progress by a very thorough hashing of this subject in this forum. We must act quickly to achieve available energy savings with available and best-buy LED lighting. We must not wait. LED lighting at 50 or 65 lumens per watt is already so efficient, that losses by waiting, will never be repaid by slightly greater savings in yet-better efficiency. We will achieve more in affordable good light. A drive is for our health too, avoiding depression and danger in darkness.